As a community can we please stop minimizing and making jokes about mental health and rape?

"Captain of the Enterprise" (justanotherdayinparadise) 03/31/2016 at 23:32 • Filed to: None

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Seriously it’s offensive and should stop we as a community have a wide audience and should be aware of what making jokes of these subjects do. It mimimizes what victims and those with mental health issues are going through. Surely they are already going through enough and deserve a place where they can try to enjoy one of their passions without fear of being triggered by something they see here.

It might seem trivial and small and like I’m making a fuss about something but it’s NOT for someone who has gone or is going through these issues. It’s the last thing someone with them should have to deal with.

I’m not trying to call anyone in particular out but as someone who has been abused and suffers from depression and anxiety I can see the affects comments and posts like these can do)

RyanFrew > Captain of the Enterprise 03/31/2016 at 23:34

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I......I don’t feel like this is a place where jokes like that are real popular. Did you come from Deadspin?

Captain of the Enterprise > RyanFrew 03/31/2016 at 23:35

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No but I've seen it around over time on this site it's not overly common but still pops up sometimes

MUSASHI66 > Captain of the Enterprise 03/31/2016 at 23:40

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Welcome to the internet. No safe places around here.

rebelextravaganza > Captain of the Enterprise 03/31/2016 at 23:44

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While in bad taste - do you not think that free speech is more important?

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Captain of the Enterprise 03/31/2016 at 23:45

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I haven’t seen it come up here but those should really be refrained, as often Opponauts voice their own personal concerns on Oppo. And people who have suffered or are suffering shouldn’t have to get support from this community while seeing unsuspecting jokes that might trigger their anxiety. It’s not PC (if one really wants to go there), but it’s being considerate to others.

DrJohannVegas > MUSASHI66 03/31/2016 at 23:47

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Congratulations on your piping hot take.

Jcarr > Captain of the Enterprise 03/31/2016 at 23:47

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I would encourage you to use the flag function for comments. Also, there's a mod email if you feel it warrants their attention (I don't remember it off the top of my head, should be in the handbook).

d15b > MUSASHI66 03/31/2016 at 23:48

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Agreed.

If you suffer from health issues, you need to be mindful of where you are and what you are doing, just like you should be practicing in real life.

Xyl0c41n3 > RyanFrew 03/31/2016 at 23:52

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Ahh, the classic “I haven’t seen it, personally, so it clearly isn’t happening. Are you SURE you know what you’re talking about?” response.

Instead of diminishing OP’s concerns, maybe take the time to listen to what he's saying and see how you can help.

RyanFrew > Captain of the Enterprise 03/31/2016 at 23:53

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Call ‘em out when it happens! I don’t think you’ll find that they’re in the majority. There will always be insensitive people though, I suppose.

Xyl0c41n3 > Jcarr 03/31/2016 at 23:53

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Oppomoderator (at) gmail (dot) com

Blondude > rebelextravaganza 03/31/2016 at 23:54

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That’s kinda where I stand. If it’s offensive I’ll let them know that it is, but I won’t tell them that they can’t say it.

TractorPillow > Captain of the Enterprise 03/31/2016 at 23:57

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Yes.

dogisbadob > Captain of the Enterprise 03/31/2016 at 23:58

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those red trees are pretty

what are they called? I tried to GIS the image and all the results came out as iphone 6s! No info about the actual tree itself :/

SVTyler > Blondude 03/31/2016 at 23:59

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Same, they have as much right to say it as we do for calling them out on it.

Xyl0c41n3 > Captain of the Enterprise 03/31/2016 at 23:59

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Oppo has had a history of users who seem to take particular pleasure in tormenting those of our members who are or have been in bad places. They usually pop up on really personal posts where people describe their struggles with depression, or stress or the like.

Luckily, it’s nowhere near as bad as it used to be around here. The mods seem to have developed a decreased tolerance for such assholery, but if you find you’re being ridiculed, teased, or harassed, please don’t engage these dipshits. Contact a mod and let them know what’s going on. The list of active mods can be found in the handbook and their email is oppomoderator (at) gmail (dot) com.

Sam > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 00:00

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People very rarely make any of these jokes on here. If they do, they are usually called out on it very quickly and dealt with.

Dsscats > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 00:00

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Having participated/seen many of those posts, I’ve almost NEVER seen people mocking those who came to Oppo who are in bad places, only offering legitimate advice. Though that advice is not always what that user wants to hear, I’ve never seen someone outright mocking them.

Dsscats > Captain of the Enterprise 04/01/2016 at 00:01

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I think a specific example would do this post well, though you don’t necessarily want to call someone out. I haven’t seen this occur before, personally.

RyanFrew > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 00:02

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So which one is it? Is there something that I need to see, personally? Or are we, “as a community”, acting a certain way? Because when the majority of a community acts a certain way, it’s difficult to miss for anyone who is a member of said community.

I’m not saying that there haven’t been inappropriate jokes made on Oppo - of course there have - I’m relaying that my experience differs and feel that the community does not support those comments either.

CB > rebelextravaganza 04/01/2016 at 00:04

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To be fair, freedom of speech only applies to government censorship. Everyone else has the right to call you an asshole if they see fit.

The idea of Oppo is to be excellent to each other and build an awesome community, and making jokes about mental illness and rape fall in the not awesome category. I guess what it boils down to is “is this contributing to the community in a positive way?” and “can I have a better word choice?” For example, instead of “man, this car got raped”, you could say “this car is a blemish on humanity and aliens will kill us that much faster because of it”, or something of that ilk.

DrJohannVegas > Blondude 04/01/2016 at 00:04

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We’re all quite aware on where you stand, sport.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/inb4-someone-s…

DrJohannVegas > Dsscats 04/01/2016 at 00:06

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http://oppositelock.kinja.com/zomg-somebody-…

(Edit: Meant to use the OP.)

Dsscats > DrJohannVegas 04/01/2016 at 00:11

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Yes, that was an incredibly poor word choice, but so is using “retarded” or “gay” in derogatory contexts. It still happens. I don’t like that they used the word “raped” in that particular way, but I don’t think they meant any minimization of the seriousness of rape or rape survivors by using it in that context.

DrJohannVegas > Dsscats 04/01/2016 at 00:18

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What was meant and how it’s received are two different matters. For those who claim to care about a community, consideration of the latter is important. That’s how empathy works. That’s what’s at the core of “Be Excellent to Each Other.” Empathy.

As far as free speech goes, say whatever the fuck you want. Your right to free speech does not immune you from feedback when you do so in a public space.

Piece said.

(Plz post more Nissan goodness.)

Xyl0c41n3 > Sam 04/01/2016 at 00:18

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Really? I remember the last two years differently.

Xyl0c41n3 > RyanFrew 04/01/2016 at 00:21

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I know exactly what you’re saying. You just reiterated your first comment, essentially saying “show me.” Clearly, your experience differs, but just because it does doesn’t mean that OP is being disingenuous or blowing things out of proportion or that issues don’t (or haven’t in the past) existed.

MY point, which I'll reiterate again, is that maybe instead of making this about YOU, you take the time to listen to what OP has said and ask how you can help. That's infinitely better than telling OP YOU don't think there's a problem.

Xyl0c41n3 > Blondude 04/01/2016 at 00:25

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Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from the consequences of that speech. Freedom of speech just means you have certain legal protections from criminal reprisals for your speech. It in no way means you won’t be called an asshole if you’re being an asshole.

And also, that freedom doesn’t extend to all speech in all capacities in all venues. There are numerous examples of speech that are prohibited, even here in the US, where we enjoy a certain autonomy of speech not often enjoyed even among other first world nations.

And if all of that isn't enough: Oppo is a moderated space. We all agreed to follow the rules that govern that moderation when we asked for posting privileges. The mods have time and again said they will not tolerate harassment, sexism, or racism.

RyanFrew > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 00:32

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I read the original post. I know what post OP is referring to and have seen it. Now, I need to ask for more examples. How much listening do I need to do before I’m permitted to submit my opinion, by your rules?

Xyl0c41n3 > RyanFrew 04/01/2016 at 00:34

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You clearly don’t listen very well. You shouldn’t have to demand examples from OP (or from me) in order for you to decide OP’s feelings are valid. He says he's seen shit and that it upsets him. There's no disputing the fact that he feels upset.

If you accidentally touch your hand to a hot burner on a stove, I’m not going to ask you to do it again in front of me before I believe you that getting burned fucking hurts like hell. Instead, I’ll bust out the first aid kit and ask you how I can help.

How many times do I have to repackage the same words over and over again before you get that?

RyanFrew > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 00:44

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Haha, I think there is a miscommunication happening here. I suppose that when someone refers to doing something “as a community”, the community can be thought of as a majority or as a whole. I understand that sometimes people make jokes relating to mental health and rape on here. I do not condone those comments and agree that they should stop. Not only do I believe that OP has seen them, I have seen them myself. When he (he? she? idk) said that we need to stop “as a community”, I interpreted it to mean that there is some sort of epidemic or as though the majority of people here joke about those things, which is plainly untrue.

Relating to why I haven’t asked how I can help: THAT would be disingenuous. I’m....not going to help. I don’t want OP to feel the way they do. I will not joke about rape or mental health. I don’t want people to make rude comments and I will confront those who do. But that’s it. And I’m sorry if my stance offends people, but it is unlikely to change.

Xyl0c41n3 > Dsscats 04/01/2016 at 00:45

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Really? Try asking K-Roll about his posts on race and his sense of identity, or Denver and the issues he had with anti-Semitic bullying.

Xyl0c41n3 > RyanFrew 04/01/2016 at 00:48

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“I don’t want people to make rude comments and I will confront those who do.”

That would qualify as helping.

DipodomysDeserti > rebelextravaganza 04/01/2016 at 00:50

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Freedom of speech has nothing to do with one individual telling another individual to shut the fuck up. It simply protects and individual from being legally obligated to shut the fuck up. I'm all for the use of street justice to deal with people who joke about rape.

DipodomysDeserti > Blondude 04/01/2016 at 00:51

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How about, “Hey, you already said that, so now I’m going to knock your teeth out”? They’re free to say it legally, but may have some pronunciation issues in the future.

RyanFrew > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 00:52

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Right. I’m aware of that and happy to do it. I should say that if OP wanted me to do anything additional, I wouldn’t, because I’m just not that invested in Oppo. Thus, it could be considered disingenuous for me to ask how I could help, because I already have decided on what I’m willing to do, before asking, if that makes sense.

Dsscats > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 00:54

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http://oppositelock.kinja.com/oppo-why-do-as…

Everyone tore Macnamera to shreds,which you were part of.

Xyl0c41n3 > Dsscats 04/01/2016 at 01:07

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Your point?

As people are fond of telling me (oftentimes in a manner meant to insult me), my reputation on Oppo is well known. I don’t like bullshit and I call it out when I see it.

Most of the people who “tore macnamera to shreds” are people from groupthink. Too many people on Oppo react exactly the way they have in this post by Captain of the Beige Wonder, by telling the OP to lighten up or to ask for proof of more instances of assholery.

It was bullshit in Denver’s 2014 post, it was bullshit every time me or another woman here on Oppo spoke up about sexism and the harassment we’ve received here, and it’s bullshit now with this OP who shared his concerns with us.

Dsscats > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 01:11

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But that’s just not true. 13 people recommended the first comment reprimanding him, and many local Oppo people making supportive comments to Denver. I don’t even want to start on the sexism thing.

Xyl0c41n3 > Dsscats 04/01/2016 at 01:18

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I’m the one who shared those posts to GT (at Denver’s request). That was back when you could still see who had recommended posts and comments in a sub blog’s “private” view. Much of those recs are from GTers, as well.

And I’m not asking you to get into “the sexism thing.” The worst of it is past, and that’s a good thing, but I can assure you that I and several other women here were subject to persistent harassment because we “dared” object to sexism on Oppo.

brianbrannon > Captain of the Enterprise 04/01/2016 at 01:46

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NERF the world?

Blondude > DipodomysDeserti 04/01/2016 at 02:37

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Yes because assault is a perfectly reasonable and legal way of reacting to something someone said...

Blondude > DrJohannVegas 04/01/2016 at 02:43

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What’s you’re point? People have made posts like that before and I’ve seen the shitstorms that ensue. I saw this coming and called it out. I also didn’t demand he change it because I don’t believe in censoring someone because they said something offensive.

Robert Jones > RyanFrew 04/01/2016 at 02:45

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Being a decent person is doing something to help. :)

I think the miscommunication is because the OP does have specific people in mind, but doesn’t want to name names. That would lead to mobby witch hunt. I don’t think they’re looking for a witch hunt. I think they’re looking for people on Oppo to treat each other decently.

RyanFrew > Robert Jones 04/01/2016 at 02:58

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I’m all about the idea of people treating others decently. Totally behind it. Also, I agree that being a decent person is doing something to help. However, there are a lot of issues in this world and a lot of people who need help. For me, this isn’t a priority in that regard, if that makes sense. All I was trying to say with that last comment.

Blondude > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 03:04

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I’m not talking about first amendment rights that don’t even apply to an international website. In fact, I never mentioned freedom of speech in my comment at all, I was simply piggybacking off a comment that had a similar idea. I’m just stating that as a general principle I don’t think people should be censored, period. I think that everyone’s ideas and opinions should be out there whether or not they’re considered “right” or “wrong”. Instead of telling someone “Hey! You can’t say that!” I think you should say “Hey, some people might be offended by that, and here’s why...” In my experience, explaining why someone shouldn’t say something has a much higher likelyhood of getting them to change their views and not say it in the future than just flaming them for it and getting both sides pissed off.

Is that really such a controversial idea?

Berang > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 05:25

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They said they didn’t feel like those jokes are popular here. And he’s right. He’s right about his feelings, and he’s right about those “jokes” not being popular.

stabfish > dogisbadob 04/01/2016 at 08:50

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They are awesome looking but I think they might be normal trees shot on Aerochrome.

What is Kodak Aerochrome?

Jcarr > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 09:13

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Thanks, Xyl0 :)

DipodomysDeserti > Blondude 04/01/2016 at 09:31

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I find it perfectly reasonably to assault someone who jokes around about rape. I couldn’t care less if it’s legal or not. The mentality that sexual violence is a flippant action needs to be stomped out of our society. To joke about such an action indicates to me that an individual thinks rape and other similar actions are funny or tolerable. Rape is an action used to dominate others (usually women in or society). So if I come across an individual who lets me know they think this is an acceptable or even palatable action, I will let them know that that is not an acceptable notion to hold. We have too many weak-ass men in our society who continue to let this mentality exist, and it’s time we start eradicating it. Not all words are just words. Many of them carry extreme weight behind them.

Niko's Work Account > DrJohannVegas 04/01/2016 at 09:59

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Well hes right

Captain of the Enterprise > dogisbadob 04/01/2016 at 10:07

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I didn't actually take the picture and don't remember where I saved it from, maybe a google into red evergreen trees would help

Party-vi > Dsscats 04/01/2016 at 11:51

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It’s not that they meant to trivialize rape by using the term here, it’s that they absolutely did trivialize rape by equating the customization of a private vehicle to the forcible non-consensual sexual penetration of a human being by another human being.

pauljones > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 12:41

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And yet, I might also remember the last two years a bit differently myself. As a moderator, I see quite a bit around here. While I can certainly recall instances of such jokes/slights, I also can’t say as I recall them happening quite as often, either. I also don’t seem to remember a point where such instances weren’t quickly dealt with, as Sam points out.

Maybe you can help me better understand where you’re coming from here, because from my perspective in this, you and Ryan Frew are both simultaneously right and wrong. You are correct in that such instances have certainly happened in the past. He, however, is correct that they tend be pretty infrequent. You are wrong in asserting that the community (including us as moderators) haven’t made it a point to deal with such issues quickly. He is wrong to assert that it’s not still an occasional problem on Oppositelock.

Am I missing something else here?

pauljones > rebelextravaganza 04/01/2016 at 12:48

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Kinja is a privately owned and operated blogging tool, not a federal forum. You have no rights here, only privileges. Play nice.

pauljones > DrJohannVegas 04/01/2016 at 12:50

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Take it easy. If you want to disagree with his perspective and rationally deconstruct it point by point, knock yourself out. Call-outs, however, aren’t going to help the situation.

pauljones > Xyl0c41n3 04/01/2016 at 13:03

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Though I don’t quite understand the argument between you and Ryan Frew, I do appreciate much of what you’ve said here.

yamahog > pauljones 04/01/2016 at 13:54

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Not to put words in anyone’s mouth, but: I think she’s referring to how frustrating it is when people act as if they haven’t personally seen something happen it’s a huge shock to them when someone else says it does in fact happen often and they then ask for proof and/or get defensive, rather than listening to the issue itself. The people who do this generally want to help and don’t intend to come off as disbelieving, but it happens a lot and can come off as an invalidation.

pauljones > yamahog 04/01/2016 at 14:05

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Fair point, and thank you for helping me to better understand.

I got a little annoyed in my prior comment due to the argument between the two of them being, on the surface, a battle of hyperbole vs hyperbole - none of which is really necessary. Instances of mocking/shaming in that context havve happened on multiple occasions, that’s certainly true. But as a mod who keeps an eye over this place, I don’t think that they are as common as has been implied elsewhere. It’s just that they hurt a lot more than other troublesome posts, and we remember them much more vividly as a result.

yamahog > pauljones 04/01/2016 at 14:08

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Thanks, glad my word salad made some sense :)

DrJohannVegas > pauljones 04/01/2016 at 15:22

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With respect, Paul, I was providing evidence of what I perceived to be a disconnect with his claimed position and a position he took in the conversation which prompted the original post.

The “INB4” post seemed to me to be inconsistent with the claim in the second sentence. The link was evidence of existence. If referring back to someone’s own words is a call-out, ¯\_()_/¯. I didn’t continue the argument after that in an effort to deescalate.